Groupware (was: Antispam - empowering employees)

[Chuck Yerkes]

Quoting Rick Moen (rick at linuxmafia.com):
> Quoting Jim Dennis (jimd at starshine.org):
> 
> > now if we can just get a decent groupware/scheduling client/server
> > package that is NOT just a website with a browser interface ...).
> 
> Just what I was thinking.  For example, SuSE Linux OpenExchange Server 
> is of that sort, using .comFire, http://www.comfire.de/ , for integrated
> scheduling and group discussions (shared folders).  But at least _some_

> As I see it, there are two obstacles:  (1) The Outlook/Exchange problem:
> Some of the major players (Bynari Insight Server, Oracle Collaboration
> Suite that was formerly Steltor CorporateTime) so wear themselves out
> achieving full Microsoft compatibility by reverse-engineering Microsoft's
> proprietary RPC-based protocols that they end up offering little to
> non-Microsoft clients.
> 
> (2) The relatively poor state of open scheduling standards:  RFC-2445
> iCAL has caught on in a big way, but that's just a file format.

I've done this game.  If you even want to show up at the table it MUST:
1) work with outlook without frightening the mortals
2) sync to a PDA.

At an company in the early 90's, group ware was being foisted
in at great expense.

We setup my Mac speaking mail (to OS/2 to belie their "unix mail"
term), speaking NetNews (discussions), speaking Zephyr (instant
messages), speaking Kerberos (single sign on, high security).

Ftp uploads with web down (would now to http uploads) allows for
"file sharing" like they were doing.

"Does this replicate? Can it sync to servers in the UK and .JA?"
asks the network guy of NetNews.  I tried to not giggle.

The compelling thing offered by Notes/Exchange/Gropewise is that
integration in the client.  We couldn't do that then.  Netscape's
client held the most promise - a new reader, mail reader, browser,
calendar tool in one.  You wouldn't need a huge OS!  They were, as
we all know, crushed, beaten and fed to AOL and Sun (the equiv of
plowing salt into their fields).

Steltor allows you to use Outbreak natively, but get
calendar stuff from a real server and mail from a real
IMAP server (or an Oracle IMAP server, now).

Outlook can be used, I'm told, in "internet mode" where
it gets free/busy info from a server.  Using ftp.
Which means that in excahgne environments, you can ftp
over people's schedules.  It's not a security problem
if we don't tell :( I love that philosophy)


I've recently been forced to use Notes at a client.  It's a good
(temporary) experience for me (5 msgs/day on a laptop whose only
purpose is notes reading).  I'd been "forced" before, but I
controlled the 'net machines.  I split it but they exempted me
when I was getting 1400 messages/day into Notes and, with no
procmail to work out postmaster mail, sort of overwhelmed the
machine I was on.

When I get mail it's PRETTY.  This is one reason I won't
rail against HTML mail.  People don't want "glass TTYs."
We got rid of mainframes for workstations at companies
using this reasoning.  And yet people still use elm, mail,
pine unable to display a freaking color!
I have mutt set to use w3m to read HTML text.  Mulberry allows
users to set it to read HTML (fonts, color, bold, etc) but NOT
GET EXTERNAL REFERENCES.  That's critical and the biggest flaw
of the bad mailers.  No "webbugs" no images downloaded from 
naked-hamsters.org.

But using CAPS above rather than <STRONG>something less 70's</STRONG>
and being able to *emphasize* in <EM>better ways</EM> is necessary.

Back to notes:
When I get a "meeting" notice (I envision a MIME type), my client's
buttons change into "it's a calendar" mode.

This is good.  This is all CLIENT based.

So what is the option to get clients "smarter"?

Well, first having a way to identify certain messages.
A festival of calendar MIME types would help:
- Here's an event
- Meeting, go into calendar mode and reply to calendar
  server or sender if you can/cannot attend.
- etc.

You obviously limit from whom you will accept messages.

If you can hit email, calendaring and personal directories (LDAP
for corp plus a chunk of LDAP for your personal stuff), you hit a
lot of Exchange users.  Let users sync to their PDA and Exchange/lookOut
is moot.  Show that you can put 20k users on an old Sun/PC and you
make an argument to start questioning Exchange's purpose.

Instant messaging and chat are important within companies.
Zephyr and IRC work for me.  I've not found zephyr for Windows.
It's a fine back end, and would be short work to wrap message
catching/sending in a little GUI (tk, gnome, kde, whatever).


Real groupware (concurrent edits, etc) is hard and there's a reason
it's only really available in commercial software.  CVS for file
sharing (or web) isn't QUITE enough.  And no "open source" group
has shown the commitement to invest $4million of people time to
make it happen.`

Start with mail/cal/PIM and chat functionality and you've covered
how most people actually use groupware.

chuck